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 Post subject: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 23:07:00 
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 22:34:46
Posts: 17
Location: NORWAY
Hi.

I have raced the 808 since its release and I am very satisfied. But I am tired of checking the pinion beairngs every race. In all the races I have ran, I didn`t retire once, except this years first race. I put in new bearings(xrays) before the semi and also ran the final with the same bearings. Two minutes before the end, it broke and I had only frontwheel drive. Lost 2 places in the final beacause of that. I sad to myself, NEVER; NEVER AGAIN :-)

Why not change the pinion system back to something that have worked since the birth of the buggy:-)
I wanted the XB8 driveline system to fit my 808`10. But I also wanted it to be lighter than the old XB8.
The solution is 2 psc of new thinner axels, 2 psc of new smaller pinions, 4 psc of 8x16x5 bearings, 2 psc of other diffbulkheads. The dremel and some brainpower will fix the rest. Parts come from XB8, 808, XT8, Losi, Hot Bodies D8 and they do fit perfect.
I put it all together now and will race it this weekend. The 808 driveline has never been so smooth before when I turn the wheels around. The whole thing will cost something about 60-90 dollars. Is it worth the trouble? Yes, I think so. You will never have to take the car apart to check the driveline before every time You race it again. And the 8x16 bearings are a much better solution than the stupid 13x20 bearings. I must admit that the 3 bearings pinion seems better than the 2 bearing pinion, but I haven`t tested it fully yet. Why did they change something that always have worked perfectly?
I will post some pictures and comments after this weekends races.


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 18:01:59 
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Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 21:24:31
Posts: 94
Location: Munich
@extra:

do you have some fotos?

sounds interesting....


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 19:00:53 
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 22:34:46
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Location: NORWAY
Here`s a movie for You.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB9EPKzbcvk

It shows two types of axels. One fits the 2010 chassis and the other fits the old chassis.


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 19:39:39 
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Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 18:46:09
Posts: 16
Location: Portugal, Azores
If the 3 bearing pinion doesn't work i might go for this option! :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 20:40:48 
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Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 22:56:05
Posts: 4
Wow there is some slop in those drive shafts/pins :o


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 07:58:13 
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Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 16:32:03
Posts: 846
Location: UK
extra wrote:
Here`s a movie for You.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB9EPKzbcvk

It shows two types of axels. One fits the 2010 chassis and the other fits the old chassis.

Interesting but how well does this now clear the radio tray & engine mounts? One observation though & understand parts used for this mod where probably old & just to see if things fit, but the amount of play wear & slop in the drivetrain can understand why some are geting failures if this is the idea of maintenance.
Im not being critical of you or your design but this sort of play will send vibrations though the std 808 drive train causing excesive loads to the bearings & ratling them apart.


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 13:15:40 
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Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 14:35:55
Posts: 37
Location: UK
after every meet check and inspect both front and rear drive pins if you see any wear replace them this is what is causing bearing failer they seem to be too thin ive been replacing them after every 2 meets and have not had a problem also take 1 of the seal covers off the bearing but face it to the inside of the diff bulkhead

jase

p.s any wear on anything will cause problems


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 16:17:31 
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 22:34:46
Posts: 17
Location: NORWAY
Bren Ralls wrote:
extra wrote:
Here`s a movie for You.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB9EPKzbcvk

It shows two types of axels. One fits the 2010 chassis and the other fits the old chassis.

Interesting but how well does this now clear the radio tray & engine mounts? One observation though & understand parts used for this mod where probably old & just to see if things fit, but the amount of play wear & slop in the drivetrain can understand why some are geting failures if this is the idea of maintenance.
Im not being critical of you or your design but this sort of play will send vibrations though the std 808 drive train causing excesive loads to the bearings & ratling them apart.


It is old parts just put together to see if it will fit and work. Now I have put together a new driveline with of course NEW parts. I am not the type that ignores maintenance and I do change parts that are worn out. Thats not only the reason why I am doing this. I am tired of dismounting the bulkheads to check the bearings every race. I am tired of a drivline that not runs as smooth as other drivtrains (Losi, MP9). And it will last a whole lot longer than the other system. I ran a 777WC for a whole season and never had to change bearings because of wearness. I did it as a part of normal maintenance every 3 or 4 race.
It will require some dremel at the batterybox-corner. Approx 2mm. It will not conflict the enginemount even if I place the engine all the way towards the center of the chassis.
Partslist:
2 pcs XT8 10t pinion
4 pcs 8x16 bearings
2 pcs 352001 diffbulkhead XB8 (use the same front and rear)
1 pcs MP9 front axel
1 pcs MP9 rear axel for the 2010 chassis
1 pcs HB D8 rear axel for the old chassis

Some dremel in the batterybox, rear supportbracket and front diffbulkhead is required. The ackerman touches the corners of the bulkhead and 15 sec of dremel is enough.

Is there any disadvantage with this system? NO.
Are there any posetiv???? OHHHHH YEEESSSSSS.

The drivetrain last longer, no more checking of bearings every race, the drivline is so smoothe and runs so much more easyer than any buggy, more runtime pr fueltank, no more 50 pack 13x20mm bearings in my toolbox:-)

A teamdriver in another class than buggy says on another forum that Mario and Juraj will not admit the problem with the design. He asked them personally. I think this is totally stubborness and a mocking of us Xray users. Admit the poor design and develop a drivetrain like I have done here and I think Xray will see some more racers around the world.


Last edited by extra on Sun Aug 15, 2010 09:51:37, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 02:51:47 
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Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 18:46:09
Posts: 16
Location: Portugal, Azores
I think that this is the Final Solution for the 808!! Tomorrow i will race with a B8RS and it's not because i don't like my Xray, its in fact that i don't have enough € to repair my car every single time :? :? And i might go for this option :!:

The only problem in the 808 in my opinion it's that, the idea of that pinion in the beginning was very smart and innovative, but i think that Xray needs to admit the problem and fix it!!

Please Xray do this for us!!!!!!!! :oops: :oops: :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 04:39:51 
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Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 13:37:24
Posts: 130
Location: Ohio
Xray, My solution is way better. Please go check the other thread.


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 01:14:42 
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Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 13:37:24
Posts: 130
Location: Ohio
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk88 ... ure949.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 09:50:30 
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 22:34:46
Posts: 17
Location: NORWAY
What kind of axels are You using? As I can see on the picture, You have only used the XT8 pinon and made a bearingsupport for the 8x16mm bearings. Am I correct? 20mm outside diameter and 16mm inside.
The only difference from my idea is that You probably use the 808 bulkheads. Not everyone has the opertunity to make something like that You have.
Where is the tread You telling us about? More pictures of a complete drivetrain?

A different solution is this, make new bulkheads with room for 13x23 or maybe bigger bearings. Keep the pinion system as is with the 2 bearing pinion. Its too much resistance with 3 bearings. With much bigger bearings the load will be the same as 8x16 bearings. The small balls inside the 13x19 bearings are too small. Bigger is better :-)
I would go for this idea, but I dont have a machine that makes plastic bulkheads LOL...
Then all the other parts on the 808 will fit.
If Xray dont fix this problem for the new car in 2011, I belive there will be a new car, I am afraid that many racers will look the other way and run Losi, MP9............


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 14:46:49 
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Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 13:37:24
Posts: 130
Location: Ohio
The thread is just below this one.(2010 pinion bearing problems) I have posted pictures there and there are more to come later today. Heres the deal, I wanted people to be able to fix this issue and in the end still have an Xray 808. These sleeves are easy to make and are the perfect answer. the only non Xray parts on my car are the center drive shafts. They are off an MP9. Even the center brace is usable with slight mod to the front. 2 XT8 pinion gears and 2 sleeves is all you need. All the rest of your 808 parts work perfect. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 14:58:33 
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Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 01:26:16
Posts: 371
Location: nottingham U.K
The first thing that hit me with the xray bearing tip was the enormous amount of grease needed. It looks like a fair bit of extra weight and drag to me considering the money you can pay to lose a few grams. An extra bearing..well, same thing really.

I suppose the argument is, we have bought a cutting edge racer and frequent maintenance is part of it. This drive line is the price paid for a narrower, lighter, faster buggy that can't lose pins.
So, if in general, customers are prepared to go back to older systems, then maybe an acceptable maintenance should be just as important. But this is going to need curing without extra weight, width or pin loss, going backwards isn't an option.


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 15:03:55 
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Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 13:37:24
Posts: 130
Location: Ohio
Just because a new design comes out does NOT mean its better. No other race buggy on the market has this so called upgrade. I never lost a pin once in any of my old Xray's. Its called loctite people.


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 15:25:51 
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Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 01:26:16
Posts: 371
Location: nottingham U.K
Don't get me wrong, my post wasn't a slight on your idea, I think it looks strong and neat. It was more a message to Xray.
The drive line is still not as free as the XB8, this drag has to cost the fuel economy which is a big deal in racing. No one seemed to notice because the 808 is much lighter so economy stayed the same when it could have been so much better.


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 15:31:34 
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Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 13:37:24
Posts: 130
Location: Ohio
Im not sure they care about the messages we send. Last year everybody made it loud and clear that the large bearing setup lacked durability for obvious reasons and Xray's answer was an even bigger bearing for 2010. Now its even more unpredictable than before. On the 09 spec I would race 3 events and replace the bearings. The 2010.......second race rear bearing came apart and destroyed the ring and pinion! That was it for me. Thats the only reason Im doing this.


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 00:01:12 
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Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 02:25:20
Posts: 97
Location: Ireland
:O This is a strange problem your all having! I have had an 808 '09 and left ALL the bearings on the entire car in for 1 and a half seasons racing!
Thats racing every week and 4 national rounds a year!
No failures! rear/front diff cases have never needed re shimming nothing!
Guess Im just lucky? as Im not a great driver and I do have the odd knock! :) actually some occasional roof surfing aswell!
Nick


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 04:12:21 
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Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 13:37:24
Posts: 130
Location: Ohio
Do the tracks in Ireland resemble this?Image


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 09:32:06 
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Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 16:32:03
Posts: 846
Location: UK
With nick's point the track pictured is no different to what we race on in the uk or Ireland, so it's no more brutal. Like nick we see very few if no failuresas 808 owners understand a little maintenance is required. The drive pin point & loctite you understand as well as I but many didn't. Your design looks good & xray will be looking & reading, they will be looking at the advantages & disadvantages of this system so just keep the great ideas coming with your feedback good or bad( it's what we do).
Daz & the grease tip, it is allot of grease but what you will find is it does feel stiff at first but spin it upfor example like every one does to check an engine. Now see how free it is, I get regular 10min + runs so it can't be that bad.
To mader though great bit of engineering.


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