XRAY - Model racing cars

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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 18:57:59 
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Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:07:19
Posts: 13
Location: Sweden
Well, it will be interesting to see what the new 2011 car will look like.

Anyone recognising the dampers JW are using?


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 00:35:59 
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Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 13:37:24
Posts: 130
Location: Ohio
Help me here. It looks like an 808 with different shocks and a couple of aluminum upgrades. What am I missing? Is that diff housing front bearing different? Hard to tell.


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 07:59:02 
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Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:07:19
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Location: Sweden
@Mader - You can find better pictures of the mods here:

http://gallery.neobuggy.net/2010-Races/ ... 0683_Smk28


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 08:05:22 
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Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 16:32:03
Posts: 846
Location: UK
Shocks on josh's car are kyosho.

The gearbox case is from xt8 & olders EC car & is being used to achieve differrent effects in drive line.
Ali holders are proto type parts & as the gearboxes is normal development & feed back that has been tested & used for a while. Just like me Josh has now been snapped :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:15:56 
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Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 20:42:34
Posts: 402
it high time, they come out with the xt8 central driveshafts system
many drivers will go back to xray for sure...


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 22:07:13 
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Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 20:11:16
Posts: 489
Location: Northern Ireland
have you tried this way



Image


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 22:27:04 
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Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 20:42:34
Posts: 402
I don't want to....
I want bearings, that don't need looking after for at least 4 months
and I don't need smaller bearings to gain 1-2.5 grs
not to speak of the costs with the xray parts, those being not the cheapest


Last edited by guy02 on Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:04:15, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 04:57:31 
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Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2008 09:10:58
Posts: 26
Location: Arkansas
You shouldn't have to mod anything to get the diff bearings to last. Xray has tried different options and none of them has worked and they need to just say we failed and go back to xb8/xt8 bulkheads, pinion gears and center drive shafts and everybody will be happy especially when they don't have to replace bulkhead bearings every race and Xray will gain alot of customers back.


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 08:16:19 
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Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 16:32:03
Posts: 846
Location: UK
guy02 wrote:
I don't want to....

Jammin572 wrote:
You shouldn't have to mod anything to get the diff bearings to last.


Barkley welcome to the dragon dens :lol: :lol: & very good examples of poor sighted views of why these guys get failures with xray or any car they use.
I know you fully understand the benfits of this simple very cheap mod but persuading the stubborn is always hard unless it was a spesific design.

Guy & Jammin I understand your views but many times its the team that come up with ideas that xray use & embrace, often the customer has made parts that work but whether xray use the mod is threre descision as they see the bigger picture rather than just your personal view. Tests by Robin who first done this mod had 23hours on one set of bearings, myself im at 15 hours still same bearings & going strong. I have taken apart to inspect & write reports but its been reassembled as it came out & for me they are still like new with no slop or wear in the area.

Im not saying there has not been issues in this area but when cheap solutions are found dont shoot the messenger who gives up his own personal time to help or test these mods.


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:55:52 
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Posts: 402
no poor insight..
I have 15 years of experience too

I mean, you have a problem with the system or not..
I am just allergic to it, I can't drive a buggy when I know, something can collapse anytime..
even if you maintain it properly
it's in my caracter, I just can't handle it..and I live 100 kms from a track
I will never race buggys that have the old insecured cvd driveshafts
either, it's past time..

ok you can try things out ..
but why keep all the hazzle with 13x19/20 bearings transmission for years
with all the stress on drivers, the black grease everywhere staining the clothes,
loosing races due to it, loosing customers for sure
..when the xb8/xt8 8x16 bearings/driveshaft system is better ?, if not the best ever...
and you can concentrate on racing
also xray can concentrate on other progressive designing
...it just doesn't at anything to the hobby, it is stopping the brands development..

Serpent now made the same mistake and even made it worse with those ridiculous small bearings everywhere..
my opinion and many others: this is no progress..it's going back in the future
a buggy can be made light with normal bearings too, look at the JQ buggy..
with all the stress involved, a off-road buggy must be made super-robust in all his parts, or
it's not a good buggy..that's the bottom line, none other..

parts are cheaper for you guys and you have time to work on your buggys, but every commun driver I know wants the normal driveshafts back, in the first place because they are just better

I know already of dozens of drivers, that will go back to xray, if xray makes the changes..
they all, were not ok with the idea they had to sell their 808, but they had to, because they couldn't cope with the problem anymore..so why keep a problem alive, that needs to be killed..

I just know for sure, you will come out with the normal driveshafts,
as the salesfigures probably speak for themselves...


Last edited by guy02 on Sat Nov 06, 2010 16:03:46, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 23:44:54 
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Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 13:38:39
Posts: 2
I haven't had any bearing failures since i have had the 808 which will almost be a year soon. I like how everything is captured but i don't like the unnecessary friction of the setup.

I don't take any seals off the bearings and after a few runs i wipe the dirt off the exposed bearing and then add a bit of grease between the 3 when i re install them.
When the drive line starts to get nice and rolls free its a good time to check them because they are probably getting a bit dry.


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 00:46:50 
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Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 09:21:01
Posts: 15
Location: Louisville, KY
I bought the 808 '09 soon as it came out. I have had 1 bearing failure running it the last 2 years. I do routine maintenance and check bearings after every 3 weekends and replace them if gritty at all. The one bearing that failed was when I was running the front active and did not have it shimmed tight enough. I never have used any grease in my driveline like the tip recommends. I believe if you shim your diffs correctly it is not an issue.

I bought an 808e the week they have came out. I shimmed the diffs and did use the grease as recommended. I have ran it 4 race days and lots of practice without an issue. I have not even opened the diff cases since I built it. I am going to rebuild the diffs this week and inspect the bearings. I doubt they will need replaced. Driveline is still very smooth. As diffs/pinions wear you will eventually need to shim them tighter, I have done this twice in my 808 '09 but the crowns and pinions are no where needing to be replaced yet.

I have never seen the driveline as an issue. I do a thorough strip down every three race weekends and rotate outdrives, replace pins, check bearings etc. I see no issue with 808 at all. It needs maintenance just like any RC vehicle. I have only not finished once due to a failure/breakage and that was after a very hard collision with another car. The 2.0 bent the chassis among other things and I broke a screw holding a steering ball link.


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 08:14:10 
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Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:52:12
Posts: 31
When I was at the track I could hear a squicking sound while driving as if something was jammed. The difference from other times was that this time I used the diff tech tip provided by xray and greased the bearings. I went home looked at both front and rear diffs and both looked fine with all their bearings. Also checked the bearings of the hubs but all ok as well. Could that sound be coming from the tech tip since now there is grease in the diffs which might cause the middle metal ring between the bearings to make that sound?

Also I see there is alot of drag due to the grease....will this not affect the engine? Shorten its lifespan maybe?

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:51:53 
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Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 20:42:34
Posts: 402
I wonder sometimes, if the drivers that don't have problems
have jumps on their thracks or not, or drive very carrefully
should make a difference with the chassis flexing a lot more

also the use of the 41T gear up front, the front can pull on the teeths of the rear gearing


Last edited by guy02 on Wed Oct 20, 2010 13:32:34, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:00:39 
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Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 13:38:39
Posts: 2
Jaap3 wrote:
When I was at the track I could hear a squicking sound while driving as if something was jammed. The difference from other times was that this time I used the diff tech tip provided by xray and greased the bearings. I went home looked at both front and rear diffs and both looked fine with all their bearings. Also checked the bearings of the hubs but all ok as well. Could that sound be coming from the tech tip since now there is grease in the diffs which might cause the middle metal ring between the bearings to make that sound?

Also I see there is alot of drag due to the grease....will this not affect the engine? Shorten its lifespan maybe?

Thanks


Sounds like the CVDs are a bit dry...


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 13:23:00 
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Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:52:12
Posts: 31
carld wrote:
Jaap3 wrote:
When I was at the track I could hear a squicking sound while driving as if something was jammed. The difference from other times was that this time I used the diff tech tip provided by xray and greased the bearings. I went home looked at both front and rear diffs and both looked fine with all their bearings. Also checked the bearings of the hubs but all ok as well. Could that sound be coming from the tech tip since now there is grease in the diffs which might cause the middle metal ring between the bearings to make that sound?

Also I see there is alot of drag due to the grease....will this not affect the engine? Shorten its lifespan maybe?

Thanks


Sounds like the CVDs are a bit dry...


The four CVDs that connect the difs with the wheels? Should I grease them up?


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 18:14:01 
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Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 16:32:03
Posts: 846
Location: UK
guy02 wrote:
I wonder sometimes, if the drivers that don't have problems
have jumps on their thracks or not, or drive very carrefully
should make a difference with the chassis flexing a lot more

also the use of the 41T gear up front, the front can pull on the teeths of the rear gearing
Guy

As your aware there are many different theory's in big jumps causing flex & centre shafts impacting on the centre diff, dirt getting trapped, dirt getting blown through when cleaning with an airline, size of bearing, heat, worn parts causing vibration & many more but to be honest we all have our views on it but no one really knows the true cause as its just random. Ive posted what i do which has increased bearing life for me which is now a fit & forget system like the old days. I drive smooth but race on a variety of tracks from flat to big jump tracks, slippery & high load tracks but ive not had an issue from day 1. I know other who are very aggresive but do not get issues so no real pattern or thing to pin it on.
With proto type bearings ive tested rather than using them all myself ive dished them out to club drivers for feedback, so tests are not always done by the pro's & parts are abused by all level of driver.

Hats of to Madar & Extra who went the whole hog & made parts to altered back to old 8x16 bearings & would guess started the ball rolling in this project. I & other members of the team have also done this for other feedback & ideas.


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 18:15:19 
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Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 16:32:03
Posts: 846
Location: UK
Jaap3 wrote:
carld wrote:
Jaap3 wrote:
When I was at the track I could hear a squicking sound while driving as if something was jammed. The difference from other times was that this time I used the diff tech tip provided by xray and greased the bearings. I went home looked at both front and rear diffs and both looked fine with all their bearings. Also checked the bearings of the hubs but all ok as well. Could that sound be coming from the tech tip since now there is grease in the diffs which might cause the middle metal ring between the bearings to make that sound?

Also I see there is alot of drag due to the grease....will this not affect the engine? Shorten its lifespan maybe?

Thanks


Sounds like the CVDs are a bit dry...


The four CVDs that connect the difs with the wheels? Should I grease them up?

Yes as it will allow things to turn without friction when under load, it will also last longer before its worn out.


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 20:49:56 
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Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 13:37:24
Posts: 130
Location: Ohio
One of the other contributing factors to the outer bearing failure is the fact that even with the spacer installed between the stock bearing setup you can still move the pinion gear in and out which I hated. If you have wheel spin upon landing the pinion gear tries to shoot itself out of the case but stops as soon as it slams into the inner race of the outer bearing. Most of us USA guy's used to race motocross and have alot of the same driving tendencies in rc racing Myself included. That being said I only missed one A this season so I must be doing something right.

Bren Im glad to hear you guy's are doing some testing of your own and I hope all of the input be it positive or negative will help better the car overall. Im sure regardless of what the new chassis will be I have a bulletproof car for 2011! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Final solution for the 808 diff bearing problem
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 22:56:55 
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 22:34:46
Posts: 17
Location: NORWAY
Bren Ralls wrote:
Hats of to Madar & Extra who went the whole hog & made parts to altered back to old 8x16 bearings & would guess started the ball rolling in this project. I & other members of the team have also done this for other feedback & ideas.


Thanks :-)
But I didn`t make any parts. I just used other Xray parts. I have now ran aproxx 30 litres with my new driveline. Just did my FIRST maintance on the pinion and 8x16 bearings. No wear at all. I normally check it a little more often, but this time I just wanted to see how far I could go. And my season in Norway are just finished and its a big relif to no more have to open and check bearings at every race.
I`m gonna race Xray next season also. Hopefully with a 2011 modell with my type of driveline. If not I build one myself, again.....
Its bulletproof.

PS. I agree a little with guy02, there is a problem and its time to solve it for good. Even the team drivers now testing a different system have to agree that. I guess there isn`t any other racecar that have so many faq. about one single problem :-)


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